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Kangaroo killing must stop – an open letter to MLAs

Photo: Ray Drew.

This is a sponsored post from Save Canberra’s Kangaroos. 

THE KILLING MUST STOP 

AN OPEN LETTER TO MEMBERS OF THE ACT LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

We, concerned ACT residents whose rates and taxes fund the killing of kangaroos, demand a stop to all killing on Canberra nature reserves and a public inquiry into the full impacts of this annual slaughter: 

  • on animals; 
  • on people; 
  • on the environment; and 
  • on the reputation of the Territory. 

Every year, over the winter months, ratepayers fund the ACT Government to send hired guns to stalk Canberra nature reserves at night. 

Over 12 years, across 11,400 hectares of the Canberra Nature Park, 27,950 kangaroos have been killed. 

Thousands more pouch joeys have been bludgeoned to death or decapitated. 

Thousands more dependent at-foot joeys have been orphaned to slower death from hunger, thirst, cold and myopathy (a particularly painful and deadly form of stress).

Many Canberra residents feel their own lives have been placed at risk, because shooting often occurs near people, next to roads, reserve fences, off-reserve walking trails, or back fences of homes.

The reserves themselves are also affected by the reduction in kangaroo populations, their keystone native grazers, and from the impact of shooters’ vehicles which churn up the ground, killing native species and seeding exotic weeds. 

Many reserves are now covered in thistles and rank grassy weeds. These weeds will be suburban fire traps in summers to come.

Culling began in 2009 without any scientific baseline research on the ACT’s kangaroo populations. Since then, no plausible evidence has been produced to demonstrate any benefits from killing kangaroos. Every government attempt to justify this slaughter has been debunked. Independent research, and even research funded by the government itself, provides no evidence that kangaroo grazing has ever harmed any other native species or ecosystem.

During 2021-22, a citizen science project conducted a “direct observational count” of kangaroos in all 37 of Canberra’s accessible nature reserves. This research has confirmed that the Environment Directorate’s claims of an overabundance of kangaroos is demonstrably unfounded. 

This project’s findings are corroborated by a Farrer resident, who has walked on Farrer Ridge Reserve for decades. She reports that, until last year, the kangaroo population there had remained stable for 40 years, reducing during drought. Last year was the first year Farrer Ridge was included in the government’s slaughter, and almost the entire population was wiped out. 

The ACT Environment Directorate itself confirmed, on April 13, 2022, that the kangaroo population of the ACT is unknown – but that it intends to kill another 1500 kangaroos this year, anyway. 

This is not conservation. This is extermination.

The Kangaroo Management Plan, which mandates killing kangaroos, and the Code of Practice, which mandates the bludgeoning of joeys, are legislative instruments. 

Each and every member of the Legislative Assembly is therefore personally responsible for this tragedy. Please stop it before any more damage is done.

Concerned Canberra Citizens 

A joey kangaroo. Photo: Ray Drew.

Canberra’s so-called “conservation cull” permits shooting of female kangaroos with joeys in-pouch and the bludgeoning to death of those joeys. Hundreds every year. Would we do this to puppies or kittens?

If you believe we are better than this, please email your local MLA or Minister for the Environment: vassarotti@act.gov.au 

For more information, please email canberrakangaroos@optusnet.com.au 

Authorised by Save Canberra’s Kangaroos, PO Box 6090, Conder, ACT 2906

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65 Responses to Kangaroo killing must stop – an open letter to MLAs

Palmerston's Lament says: May 25, 2022 at 2:01 pm

At risk of drawing the ire of well meaning….

Much of this open letter is based on emotion and misleading statements. There is little to no science, and no real understanding of the impact of the current kangaroo population in and around Canberra.

I will leave it to others to address the safety issues surrounding the mechanics of culling, but would note the comments made are erroneous, and would not pass the Government’s own OH&S requirements.

The one thing I would suggest is visiting the fenced off area in Mulligan’s Flat which demonstrates what a vibrant and rich environment with a low kangaroo population looks like. Noting the journey to this area traverses kangaroo controlled areas any visitor can quickly determine that there is a clear difference in biodiversity when the kangaroo factor is removed.

This real issue with this cull is the waste of protein with the carcasses buried out of public eye. A lot can be learned from other countries that use culled meat to support meals for the homeless. Now that would be truly a progressive Government.

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Robyn Soxsmith says: May 25, 2022 at 5:18 pm

Even completely ignoring the fact that it was indigenous peoples and wildlife territory before Europeans developed all over it, your example of using one reserve when there are 36 others to justify your comments is laughable. My question to you is what counts have you done yourself and can you tell me what the baseline number of kangaroos was before they started culling ? Where does it say in the code not to bludgeon and decapitate Joeys? Without these details, your comments are made without any evidence whatsoever making them Illinformed and irresponsible

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Rebecca Marks says: May 25, 2022 at 6:55 pm

How can the ACT government justify yet another cull when it doesn’t even know how many kangaroos are left?

Their treatment of, and attitude towards kangaroos is negligent, reckless and irresponsible.

The kangaroos have almost disappeared from the reserve near my place. This year I have noticed a little family group of three. I really hope the government and the shooters don’t find them : (

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Frankie Seymour says: May 25, 2022 at 5:35 pm

Unlike the government’s assertions, repeated endlessly by those who have swallowed the government’s line, nothing in the open letter was misleading or erroneous. Every word of it can be verified, from scholarly or historical sources, by anyone not too lazy to go look for them. As for emotional, what halfway decent human being wouldn’t be?

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Jennifer Macdougall says: May 25, 2022 at 7:40 pm

Perhaps the person from Palmerston would like to go up Farrer Ridge where the kangaroo population was decimated in 2021 The Government’s claim in its Kangaroo Management Plan that 1 kangaroo per hectare is desirable to help control unwanted vegetation and maintain biodiversity was totally ignored on the Ridge. The cull on the 178Ha Ridge now has only 32 kangaroos left after a botched count by the Government before the cull and is now dense in weeds. Perhaps this person would like to walk along the Ridge and also reflect on the 2003 fires that saw the inferno come right up to the back fences and only four houses from my house. It certainly makes me feel very nervous now. OHS? then talk to the old lady and her husband who had shooters’ lights shone in her house as they shot along their back fence with high powered rifles. I can take you to meet her and her husband if you like. Also so, before you make such comment how about agreeing to meet the two citizen scientists who spent 8 months doing meticulous counts on all the reserves over and over again. Why do you think the minister does not want to compare her advised figures she is relying on for her 2022 cull with those figures which are the most comprehensive ever done. If some citizens are prepared to make this effort over 8 months the least the Minister could do is meet them to compare her information before she sent the shooters in. And perhaps you would like to go out after the shoot and see tiny joeys orphaned, many of which the Government admits could die of starvation and exposure in the cold. As a farmer who has kangaroos on our property I know this cull is not conservation, it is a botched attempt to reduce kangaroo numbers, while admitting “we should leave at least 1 per hectare) but The Minister in her own words admitted she did not know how many were there. So please get your facts as we did and then make more informed comment. And maybe come out with us and stand near the Reserve as the shooter shoot within a few metres of you. And of passing cars. If I did that, and I can shoot, I would soon find myself in the lockup. Disgusted farmer.

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Jennifer Macdougall says: May 25, 2022 at 8:04 pm

The person from Palmerston needs to check facts. A walk up Farrer Ridge is the best evidence of how the Government got it so wrong. The 1 kangaroo per hectare it says is important to control certain grasses and weeds was made a mockery of in the 2021 cull. Only 32 kangaroos remain on the 178 Reserve after count after count, and the high growth of grass and vegetation is setting us Farrer Ridge folk up for the terrible ordeal with suffered in 2003. The kangaroo population was almost exterminated on the Ridge due to the botched count by the Government pre cull. The Minister refuses to give an explanation as to how this was allowed to happen and it is not only Farrer Ridge. Callum Brae and East Jerrabombera Reserves suffered a similar fate and I suggest the Palmerston resident go take a look at that reserve now. That two citizen scientists would put in 8 months meticulously walking in a grid fashion and counting over and over again over several months and detailed exactly how many kangaroos are there, yet the Minister is unwilling to tell the public what numbers it says are on the reserves now being culled and compare those with those meticulous counts. Why? Because in her own words recently on TV she said she did not know how many were out there, yet she has sent the shooter in yet again. And Palmerston resident I am happy to take you to meet the old couple who had shots fired from high powered rifles in the night along their back fence and the shooters lights shone into their house. OHS? And the shooters are quite happy to shoot within metres of members of the public observing from the boundaries of reserves during the cull trying to save wounded animals that flee. As a farmer with kangaroos on our property, this cull is not conservation, it is the worst example I have ever seen of kangaroo management in action. And I can shoot as farmers do, and I would be locked up if I shot within metres of urban residences. So come join us and you will see we are not emotional we actually know what we are talking about based on facts and observations over some 12 years of the culling.

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Palmerston's Lament says: May 26, 2022 at 9:41 am

As I noted in my comment, the responses it seems to have provoked do not represent the science behind land management. The issue relates to presentism, “I see the world today and it represents my understanding of the past, and the future.”

The kangaroo in Australia serves the same biological role as deer in North America and Europe. Their role is distinct, and with predation, managed. But alter that balance (eg remove predators and replace natural environments with man made countryside) and you create an environment that favours increased populations that alter the grassland balance. See the effect of Red Deer in Scotland as a example.

In the ACT we have changed open woodland to pasture then turned it into landlocked but self sustaining sites with water, food, and safety.

Outside the residential areas, we have created acre blocks each with a dam and removed natural predation through abundant and safe food sources.

The result is a population explosion that is damaging to the environment.

As to the anecdotal comments about spotlights, I remember that story doing the rounds and I seem to remember there was an investigation. I also seem to remember kangaroo protesters threatening cullers in the past as well.

So until you have science to demonstrate effective and efficient kangaroo management, the use of the annual appeal to the Bambi Syndrome will continue to fail.

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kangarevolution says: May 26, 2022 at 2:57 pm

If there are these abundant food sources as you claim there are then why does the government use the excuse of drought to kill the kangaroos? And regarding your comment on water – please do some actual research on water in this country. You will find not only in Canberra but across the whole country we have destroyed the water supplies that were once bountiful even during early settlement. Check out their diaries. Go for a drive. use your eye. Everywhere you will find rivers and creeks either dried up completely or a mere trickle of what they once were. And you obviously know very little if anything about kangaroos. They don’t drink out of dams or that type of water source unless they are forced to by human intervention preferring instead to exist primarily on the water in the plants they eat. Further eastern grey kangaroo reproductive processes means their numbers cannot and do not ‘explode’. In addition, you cannot compare deer to kangaroo. They are two very different animals. Further still, kangaroo predators do exist – it is the human species. The numbers recorded in early white man diaries showed that there were so many kangaroos they could almost reach out and touch them. We have decimated their numbers, not helped them grow. Lastly for someone deriding an emotional response to the kangaroo killing your use of ‘population explosion’ is just that, emotional. Pot kettle.

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Rebecca Marks says: May 26, 2022 at 5:57 pm

Speaking of being “unscientific” my friend Sophie A. volunteered with the Friends of the Grasslands (Ainslie) for a while.

She described to me the method of counting kangaroos which involved a large number of people walking towards a group of kangaroos, attempting to count them while the kangaroos were jumping away in various directions.Doesn’t sound problematic at all, does it??

She described their methodology as “not very scientific at all”.

She left the group in disgust once she realized what the purpose of the count was ie. to justify killing kangaroos.

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Pam Napier says: May 26, 2022 at 9:56 am

They won’t stop until there are no more kangaroos left . The thing that should be noted
1. Look at our coat of arms do you see a kangaroo.
2 . Look at Australian money what do you see kangaroos.
How they can say kangaroos are killing our country did you know
1 cow eats more than 50 Kangaroo do & they only nibble the tops of grass not the stubble .

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Dominic Ward says: May 26, 2022 at 2:26 pm

Palmerston’s Lament has provided the perfect example of style of argument over substance of argument, a great tribute to the moral and intellectual weakness of the new progressives.
This is a concern of ethics clearly beyond the grasp of the neo liberal Greens.

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Jennifer Macdougall says: May 26, 2022 at 2:56 pm

Palmerston’s Lament, speaks of hearing a story going around. Then come with me and I will introduce her/himto the old couple on Hawkesbury Crescent who had the shooter’s spotlight shone right into their house as the shooters were shooting along the back fences of Hawkesbury Crescent. And come up on Farrer Ridge and look for the 100 + kangaroos the Government claimed it left after the cull. Somehow over 70 of those were missing after the cull and are still missing, and why? Because it was a botched cull based on a botched pre cull count and were actually shot. So if you think all kangaroos should be removed from Reserves then you are being accommodated. This it not the only Reserve where this has happened due to highly inflated pre cull numbers. Interesting that the Minister does not want to talk about Farrer Ridge, isn’t it? She has been asked often enough why it all went so wrong up there but has not answered. As for the Bambi syndrome. What a silly remark. Well I am a farmer with kangaroos on our property and what I see happening in the ACT is not conservation, quite the contrary .The state of the Reserves speak for themselves, Canberra is now the kangaroo killing capital in Australia and it is time ACT residents dropped their apathy and stood up and said No More! But I won’t waste my sleep waiting. Most people you talk to in the street are not even aware that the kangaroos are being shot .Enough said..The Government relies on that ignorance. But that ad is the start of having them better informed. Jenny, Farrer.

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Inelda Lovi says: May 26, 2022 at 4:23 pm

“The NATIONAL ICON is the helpless victim of Power-Hunger, Greed, Corruption, Arrogance, Ignorance, Selfishness and Savage Cruelty”.~ IL “The love of money and power-hunger is the root of all”.
The Australian parliamentarians and the people that voted for them have their hands stained with the blood of an Australian ICON. They are destroying the wildlife, our own native animals! What does that say about us as a country?
Every country in the world has buildings, bridges, roads, countrysides, nice houses and old falling apart ones, concerts, fireworks, restaurants, and all types of foods, faces some friendlier than others. So, they don’t need to expend their savings to come to Australia and the main reason they come to visit is to experience – some only once in their lifetime – the unique wildlife that Australia has been blessed with.
“Australia is NOTHING without the wildlife”.~IL

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Pam Ison says: May 26, 2022 at 6:58 pm

What is needed is for people to switch to a fully plant-based diet and stop breeding millions of sheep and cattle who unwittingly are the cause of environmental degradation, not native animals that harmoniously lived here for thousands of years before we came.

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Heather says: May 26, 2022 at 7:08 pm

I am so shocked and sickened that Australia slaughters these gentle native animals. They have lived here for millions of years. It is deplorable that this is sanctioned slaughter. I am a migrant and thought better of Australia. Sadly my idea of Australians has been drastically altered. Stop the slaughter.

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RedHill rover says: May 26, 2022 at 10:13 pm

This is a deplorable, non- scientific slaughter every year- regardless of weather conditions, community opinion or updated ecological data.
Even more disgusting is the Vanessa Vassoritti is the environment minister who arrogantly refuses to engage in dialogue with anyone concerned about the cull. She is a member of the most disappointing Greens MLA’s I’ve ever helped to vote in,
To sign off on an order that condones shooting Roos and bludgeoning joeys is completely undefendable in 2022.
There are other methods to control populations but I also want to see current, peer reviewed scientific papers. As a scientist myself I am acutely aware there is a HUGE variability in the quality and corruption of scientists and the papers they write depending on who pays them.
To think these cowards of MLA’s claim to belong to the same party as Bob Brown.
The Roos do not deserve this violent slaughter – we should be preserving our native unique marsupials

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The Author says: June 9, 2022 at 2:16 pm

I used to be very involved with the political left, specifically the Greens, until person-after-person among them casually revealed, in stark contrast to the PR, that they lack empathy.
At social gatherings they coolly celebrate, and conversationally compete with each other, about being heartless and approving of killing, while cloaking it in an apparent good cause.
For example, in contrast to mistaken public assumptions that they’re “vegans” they’ll cook roo meat on their BBQs and say stuff like: “Yeah we gotta cull and eat the roos ’round ‘ere because there’s a very rare species of grass that they might eat!” … And then weeds get out of control in the area …
Another example, of their projection: “Yeah we gotta kill the cats because they’re all killers!” …
And then rats and mice get out of control in the area.
I joined them initially because I assumed they were good smart people wanting to do good things. Some are. But some aren’t. And they’re the ones who bully their ways in to positions of power; with the income and status. They gaslight and disempower those who actually care. For anyone who has illusions otherwise, join them and spend some years with them.

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Palmerston's Lament says: May 27, 2022 at 7:10 am

So far none of the arguments attempting to counter my comments have done much beyond use ad hominem techniques and avoid the key points regarding the increased kangaroo numbers as a result of the changed landscape over the past 30 years, and the lack of lack of natural predation.

Furthermore, I can find no documentary evidence of untoward culling activity. But I can find a lot of reporting of assault and destruction by anti-cullers. And this is disappointing as it undermines the very thing the protesters want.

I suggest again that there is a world of science out there that transcends the simplistic emotional response here, and it should be reviewed by all parties.

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Jennifer Macdougall says: May 27, 2022 at 8:32 am

Palmerston’s Lament Why do you avoid the facts and not take up my invitation to come up to Farrer Ridge and help find the 100+ kangaroos the Government says it left there as part of its Management Plan and conservation. You won’t find them because the majority were in fact shot, but come and check our facts, otherwise don’t criticise. Why does the Minister refuse to answer questions as to how the cull up there was so botched? Or come with me and interview the old couple who were so terrified in their own home during the cull up there in 2021 as shots were fired along their back fence and shooters spotlights penetrated their house.. Why are you afraid to check facts we give you before simply discounting them. Are you prepared to spend 8 months of your life doing a definitive count of kangaroos on all the Reserves as two citizen scientists have done? If you did would find these folk do know what they are talking about. Whereas the Minister publicly stated she did not know how many kangaroos were out there. It was her job to know!! No wonder the culls are botched. Ad if you had gone to the rubbish tip, where the carcasses are dumped after the cull and found a joey that had been stabbed, shot and bludgeoned before it died, would you say that in objecting about the cruelty involved in the cull, the people who took that corpse to a vet for confirmation of how it had died, were just being emotional? Bambiites!! Interesting that when they tried to get an investigation into that incident they were told it was not in the public interest for such to be done!! As for the damage done to ranger vehicles some years ago well that was not our group. The public have the right to go out during the cull and observe. But they have to hide their own cars to prevent deliberate vandalism. But even if people are there observing, the shooters are quite happy to shoot within 30 metres of them with high powered rifles, and nearby passing traffic. Do you believe the public has no right to go and watch what is happening and try and rescue injured o or orphaned joeys that flee onto roadways? A pity more Canberrans were not prepared to do that, risking their lives in doing so. They have guts those people . They have gone out every single night during the shoot for the past 12 years..They do not believe in sitting in their comfortable lounge rooms just complaining about the cull, they get out there and try and do something. If you would care to join them you would be better informed as to what actually goes on during the night. I am sure they would be only too happy to take you out with them so you could see for yourself. Perhaps you would like to help rescue some of the orphaned joeys before they are run over by cars . In some years they have been seen lining the roadways, tiny joeys with no hope of surviving the bitter Canberra winter, joeys still dependent on the mother, but which happened to be out of the pouch when the mother was shot. And you might like to ask why the Government finds it necessary to deliberately target joey carrying females. Each year the cull is exceeded by at least 30% due to the pouch joeys that were found in the shot female, pulled out and bludgeoned to death. I asked the Minister why the Government when it announces the target number each year, does not inform the public that 1650 will become over 2000 when those joeys are added in .Why are they just treated as some sort of bonus extra to the cull target. So the public is misled as to the true numbers of kangaroos killed each year .The 2021 target was 1500, in fact 2124 were killed when those bonus extras, 619, were added in. Not good enough Minisiter.

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Wild Facts says: May 27, 2022 at 9:15 am

Some fun facts about kangaroos for Friday.

1. Kangaroos don’t drink standing water. FALSE. Kangaroos do drink from standing water. Without access to a water source, they will not survive.

2. Kangaroos don’t breed to meet changing conditions. FALSE. Kangaroos can have three joeys at different stages of development. Kangaroos embryos can also go into a form of suspended animation. This was first identified by CSIRO in 1965 and it allows the kangaroo to breed continuously.

3. Kangaroos grazing is better for the environment than cattle. FALSE. The two animals have a different impact on the grassland due to their tooth structure. Kangaroo grazing does more root damage to grasses than cattle. Cattle have hard hooves that contribute to erosion.

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Ian MacDougall says: May 27, 2022 at 4:31 pm

1. Kangaroos will drink ‘standing water,’ but prefer running water if they can get it; as do I, and as any other bushman will tell you. But they will drink from farm dams and the artesian and sub-artesian water present in farm water troughs in the absence of anything else. NOTE: never mind little streams; whole rivers get pumped dry by the irrigators, and in drier times, there is a constant brawl between the upstream and downstream irrigators as to who is allocated what and who has exceeded their allocation.
Most of the water in the tributaries of the Murray never gets anywhere near the mouth of the Murray in SA, and that poor flow turns that mighty river’s mouth into a mudbank. Following his expedition down the Murray (1829-30) Charles Sturt reported that it ran clear, all the way to its mouth. Now it is better described as a muddy ditch.
2. Your second point conradicts itself so elegantly, I am totally gobsmacked. What is the ability of female kangaroos to hold foetal development and suspend ovulation, if not ‘breeding to meet changing conditions.’?
3. I think you are confusing kangaroos with sheep; (understandable for some, I know.) Sheep are legendary for tearing the grass out by the roots. Roos tend to clear out and move on before things get to that stage. As a cattle grazier, I can say that I have been through drought (the ’80s one was the worst) but I have NEVER seen, directly or in aftermath, roos tearing grass out by the roots. And we have more than a few coming and going on our place at any one time.
Nonetheless, there is an understandable tendency when in drought to hope and pray for rain, and to hang on as long as possible before selling. Everyone knows that from the moment it starts raining, stock prices will start rising on the markets, and it will be on for young and old.

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Wild Facts says: May 28, 2022 at 7:45 pm

Since you are a bushman, you will have seen what I have seen. Two embryos of different sizes in the pouch and a furred youngster. But only in the good times.

Kangaroos overgraze in a style closer to rabbits than sheep. It promotes a mono-culture and increases single species bird life over ecological diversity.

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Jennifer Macdougall says: May 29, 2022 at 12:26 am

I think you will find that rabbits and sheep have done far more damage to this country than the kangaroo ever did or could. In the 1982 big drought that lasted for three years, sheep in the Riverina were turning over the pebbles in the dust to try and find the last seed. All root systems were gone due to them, not kangaroos as there are in fact very few kangaroos on those closer farmed smaller, ie c. 2000 acre properties anymore. Blown soil was fence high so sheep could even walk over the top of fences. Rabbits of course – we know how they turned country into desert back in the late 1890s and early 20th Century, not kangaroos. Drive out on the Hay plains today and what do you see – not kangaroos, but goats goats and more goats. As one motorist said ‘I drove all the way to Adelaide across the Hay plains and saw not a single kangaroo, just hordes of wild goats’. Another said he drove from Adelaide to Darwin without seeing one single kangaroo. As for monocultures, something needs to be done about those broad acre farmers, we call them land rapists for what they are doing. In our area on the western plains, many of them, but not all, shoot every kangaroo and emu that hops/ runs. They knock down old growth trees that were habitat for native birds. They cannot abide a single tree in a farming paddock. We planted thousands of trees, we preserve old dead trees with hollows and we have not allowed a roo shooter on our place in 30 years. I would more farmers cared about biodiversity as we do. Ours was the only property with any grass on it in this just ended severe 3 year drought. It sickens me when I see some farmers standing by emaciated and dying cattle in grassless paddocks seeking sympathy from city folks. No good farmer hangs onto livestock till they reach that state and it is gross cruelty to do so. They are not good farmers. Now I think you will find that the kangaroo population in Australia is nowhere near what is claimed. SA said as I recall in 2019, they estimated 5 million in that State, but when the professional shooters tried to fill their quotas they fell far far short, as the kangaroos were simply not there. I think that raises serious questions about how populations are estimated and here in the ACT inflated numbers are leading to some Reserves being totally denuded of macrapods. I do not think that can be called conservation culling, quite the contrary. Kangaroo management should be on a nationwide basis, not ad hoc with farmers and individual governments doing their own thing. The kangaroo is under pressure across the country, and one day it will be too late, as is now likely for the koala. It was once treated as a pest or fur accessory – yet we have learnt nothing.from that.

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Jennifer Macdougall says: May 27, 2022 at 5:03 pm

Wild facts. Well here are some true facts observed by me while 30 years farming in he Central West of NSW. The millions of sheep in this country have done untold damage to the landscape. During droughts they actually rip the roots out of the ground. and the dust storms often bury fences as the country blows away. And broad acres farmers in our area are now removing every last tree in paddocks so in the three year drought to 2019 the worst dust storms in history occurred. Kangaroos do die in droughts, but only after the country has been denuded of all vegetation by wild goats, donkeys, cattle and the ground lice as they are called, ie sheep. We never graze our property down to the ground, we destock long before that, and no kangaroo. and we have quite a few, have ever died of starvation on our property. We have always managed to keep some ground cover. Not only that when the rains come again, they spread out far and wide across the landscape so we have never shot a kangaroo on our property in 30 years. The ACT cull should be seen in the context of the pressures on kangaroos across the country. Thousands died in the fires. many thousands. Meanwhile on the big stations in Queensland and now NNSW, exclusion fences are being constructed around adjoining properties, ( the desire being to shut out wild dogs) but in doing so disrupting kangaroo movement and when they breed up inside the zones some farmers are now using helicopters to drive them into corners and gun them down en masse. In Qld they shut the water off outside one exclusion zone and an estimated 40 000 kangaroos died of thirst. And that came to me from a professional kangaroo shooter disgusted at the cruelty. Can I suggest readers here read the Report from the recent NSW Govt Inquiry concerning kangaroo welfare and health. It tells a very sorry story. What is happening in the ACT is just part of a very ugly picture nationwide. And can I suggest those who quote the Government’s so called experts they rely on, that experts are notorious for getting it wrong. The NSW Govt can thank me for saving it from a massive blunder, when I, a mere farmer, pointed out in relation to a billion dollar project back in the 90s, that its hyrdologists and engineers had got it all wrong. I recall quoting to them, the “smallest child on the watershed, could tell you where the water flows’ and the kid I was quoting was 10 years old. He and I, were proven right. Fortunately they did in the end listen and go back to the drawing board and discovered we were right, making amendments costing milllions to their design.. So folks, beware of Government so called experts on any issue. Always check the facts they try to sell you.

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Chris Klootwijk says: May 27, 2022 at 1:36 pm

Lament, from personal observations, the 2015 cull was declared unlawful under law, a sneaky rural cull in the Rose Cottage Horse Paddocks in 2015, done under cover of the cull in the Wanniassa Hill Nature Reserve was noticed to occur in a paddock that was not part of the license, the particular block was added to the license the day after I had called police for illegal shooting, all documented by information obtained undfer an FOI request, then there is my finding during the 2012 cull of a young kangaroo whose sharp separation at the neck indicated decapitation. Amen, Lament.

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Palmerston’s Lament says: May 27, 2022 at 2:00 pm

Jennifer. I have searched high and low to find the incidents you say happened but I cannot find them. I note that 100s of the carcasses were sent to an animal park for the carnivores and separate reports show shooters using thermal scopes and moderators to remove lights and reduce sound.

I put it to you your accounts are conflated and represent what you think happened and do not represent how the cull operates.

I suspect with a thermal observation device and bushcraft your missing victims would be located. But it would not be during daylight hours.

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Jennifer Macdougall says: May 27, 2022 at 4:37 pm

On the contrary Palmerston’s Lament. How do you think the Government gets it count. It has mostly used scat counts and it do daylight counts. Have a look at its own publicity on the Parks and Conservation FB page as it shows their counters going out to do their count. Incidentally the elderly couple who complained to me about the shooters shooting so close to their house and the lights shining into their house, whether from the quad bikes or what, volunteered that information. I had never met them before and was merely seeking signatures for a petition along Hawkesbury Cres. and spotted them in their front garden. They told me that at first they did not know what was going on and actually went outside to see, a highly dangerous thing given high powered bullets can pass through a soft carcass and can ricochet. The kangaroos that were being shot there were those that grazed along those back fences of houses as the grass was always mown there. Only two have been seen there since, in weeks of checking. The carcasses, yes a few each year go to feed carnivores and for ?baits, but the vast majority, i e thousands over some 12 years all finished up in landfill. That the Government has admitted.

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Palmerston's Lament says: May 28, 2022 at 7:58 am

Sorry Jennifer. The culling parties do not use quad bikes and the “high powered bullets” whatever they might be are designed to be so frangible that they disintegrate on on contact with anything heavier than air.

Globally, the past five years has demonstrated the need to fact check everything. If you are going to launch a campaign to change behaviour and attitude you have to get your facts straight. If it takes a quick Google to find facts and science that actively disprove your assertions, and you don’t have anything better than hearsay and feelings as the basis for your argument, it is time to review your campaign strategies.

BTW, the better use of the carcasses was as a result of a campaign.

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Jennifer Macdougall says: May 28, 2022 at 4:12 pm

Palmerton’s Lament. Oh I see google is where you fact check, Ok google up the NSW Report. Go through the CSIRO Reports if you want facts and viewpoints based on evidence and science. I am educated enough to evaluate both. And question, thus was able to stop one awful blunder in relation to a multi billion dollar project by the the NSW Government. Their experts got it wrong and it was with extreme satisfaction that one of their officers muttered to me as we left a meeting: We spent over $100 000 on this consultant only to find what you farmers have been telling us all along was right! So learn to question experts and the science. They do get it wrong you know and the worst ones for that are those who tell the Government what it wants to hear. The self fulfilling prophecy is alive and well. Quad bikes? Well we know what a quad bike looks like though there are many types of ETVs that fall under that general label. What do you think they are doing riding round during the shoot in the dark on such, a joy ride? Sorry doesn’t pass the pub test. But clearly you find the truth unpalatable so I will not bother trying to educate you on any of this further. I note you do not take up my offer to come check out Farrer Ridge with me or those affected by what happened up there. Oh well, there are none so bllind as those that do not want to see. So I call it quits with you . Best wishes all the same, Each to their own views on all matters. Meanwhile those out there every night watching will try and save any injured animals and orphaned joeys if they can..BTW olnly a small number overall of the carcasses are placed, the rest are just waste product.

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Palmerston’s Lament says: May 27, 2022 at 2:44 pm

Chris. 2012 to 2015 is when protesters were cutting the bettong fences and taking scientists captive? Those tactics were not great PR for the cause and to date no comments made here have traveled much beyond feelings, conflation and ad hominem attacks. Fact checking is not providing independent evidence.

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Warm and Wild says: May 28, 2022 at 11:13 am

Please, Palmerston’s Lament, don’t bother making any more wild assertions from your armchair when you have clearly never been out at the reserves during the slaughter and never (apparently) read a scientific paper in your life.

I, and many others, have been at the reserves where the kangaroos have been shot, night after night, for 12 years. Aside from all the science being on our side, and basic human decency being on our side, we are eye witnesses to the routine use of quad bikes and high power rifles, to the dozens of orphaned at-foot joeys lining the roadsides after their mothers have been shot, to the fleeing kangaroos impaled on barbed wire fences, or flying into the path of traffic, or getting trapped trying to dig out under exclusion fences and dying of exhaustion.

We have found the blood trails the next morning where kangaroos who have not died instantly have dragged themselves for metres before dying of their wounds or being despatched by the shooters. We have watched the hired guns shooting kangaroos less than 30 metre from where were standing outside Isaacs Ridge Reserve, within 30 metres of passing traffic on Mugga Lane.

It must be obvious, even to someone like you, that people who care enough about animals to give up five nights a week, for ten weeks, every year for the sake of the kangaroos, would never have cut the fences where the captive bred bettongs had been released. That was just one of many lies told by the government for no reason other than to discredit those who opposed the slaughter – a slaughter which itself is based on a bunch of other lies, most notably that kangaroos overgrazing is damaging reserves ecosystems (a claim for which there has never been any evidence, while there is plenty of evidence, eg CSIRO Plant Industries 2014, indicating the opposite).

“Taking scientists captive”???? What a thought! Still giggling at that one.

As for using silencers, obviously we wouldn’t know if and when they do use them because, duh, we wouldn’t hear them. But every year since 2012, we have heard plenty of shooting with the usual high power rifles, including at least 60 shots fired since this year’s killing started at Red Hill last Monday.

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Palmertson's Lament says: May 28, 2022 at 1:26 pm

Thanks for this input. While there are a lot of assertions in your reply, one statement stands out starkly. That is your contribution to conversation is limited so a single period each year, no more and no less. I note not one single one of your group has commented upon the subsequent cull activity of deer and foxes post the roo cull. These too are sentient creatures but as demonstrated in other comments, less deserving that others in the eco-system.

But yes, two scientists were taken by protesters at one of these events. And I used the word moderators not silencers. There is a very big difference between Hollywood and reality.

Please keep the ad hominem attacks out of this. It really undermines your cause.

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Alex says: May 28, 2022 at 10:24 pm

We are asking for the facts. Like the ones below.

What are the actual numbers of living kangaroos?

How you do decide how many you would like to kill?

Why are there ZERO kangaroos on many of the reserves?

Why is it that joeys that are killed by smashing them against something are not used in the count. This would be and body to count, am i right?

Why is it that joeys that die in the aftermath due to stress, freezing, their mum being shot and losing their food source, many more reasons, are not taken into account?

Surely if scientific evidence is used, it would be vital to tally these counts otherwise it really wouldn’t be accurate.

Surely if there was a scientific method and evidence it would be available to anyone interested.

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Palmerston's Lament says: May 28, 2022 at 7:21 pm

Some time points for you.

2008: Protesters attack police and security lines to release kangaroos resulting in unnecessary deaths in the population (Reuters)
2012: ANU scientists threatened by protesters and prevented from leaving Mulligans Flat. Bettong enclosure cut. (ABC)
2013: Cull delayed due to legal challenges. (Canberra Times)
2014: Protesters threaten to get in front of cullers rifles to stop the cull. (Canberra Times)
2015: Culler fears for his safety after colleagues receive death threats and have kangaroo body parts sent to there houses. (ABC)
2016: Protester faces court for intimidation. Court told protest activity causes more stress to the kangaroo population and does not protect population. (ABC)

I could go on. The violence of the earlier protests is a key marker for most Canberrans, and ongoing personal attacks on social media against those of differing views does nothing for the cause. I urge you, if you wish to protest, do it wisely and in a targeted way to bring the Canberra constituency along with you – noting an ecosystem is more than just one animal.

I wish you well!

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Jennifer Macdougall says: May 29, 2022 at 10:53 am

Palmerston’s Lament .”do it wisely and in a targeted way” I would that you could read the thousands of words in letters and reports sent to the ACT Government by those protesting the cull over the past 12 years – definitive and science backed reports by a range of independent experts pointing to the flaws in the Government’s Kangaroo Management Plan. They do not just go out on the Reserves, they spend much of their lives all year trying to show why they are so concerned.8 months walking the Reserves doing thorough counts. The Government simply ignores it all. So do you wonder in frustration at the lack of preparedness to consider alternate studies and scientific research concerning macrapods, that activists are left with little option but to try and physically intervene. Remember the Franklin? – without such people it would be lost to us all, as would a lot more of our old growth forests. One of the problems is that many city residents in the ACT are in fact ignorant of the true facts or even that a cull is taking place, let alone why. Just go and stand in Civic and ask anyone passing by what they know about it, you will get a shock. In most cases total ignorance. So the Government gets a free pass by the public at large. The same thing has happened with koalas. Activists and wildlife experts were ignored for far too long as they pointed out that habitat loss and climate change causing wildfires could lead to the loss of this iconic marsupial in Australia. Now the concerns expressed to unwilling-to-listen politicians over the decades sees the koala now listed as endangered. Massacre of koalas in early days when they were like kangaroos so plentiful did massive harm but we added to that as we then destroyed huge swathes of habitat and failed to manage nature reserves and parks properly. Kangaroos are now under similar pressures all over Australia . In the PIlliga wildfires a few years ago, all the koalas and kangaroos died, with 90 % of the Park destroyed .We saw the kangaroos piled 15 deep dead in dams trying to escape. Australia has the unenviable reputation of having the greatest loss of native mammals in the world. And with wildfires, land clearing, broad acre farming where all kangaroos get shot by farmers, louts out for a bit of fun shooting, commercial harvesting and so on – do you think the kangaroo can survive all that in the coming decades. I very much doubt it .On the issue of road kill .In 30 years in the city we have never hit a kangaroo. If people would only slow down a bit, such would be mostly avoided .One man told me he had hit one seven times in this city What does that say about him? OH well, I doubt much I say will change anything or anyone. But I will keep writing letters while I can hold a pen. Many many years ago, a scientist who turned against animal experiments and became an acitivist, said, ‘never stop writing letters’ . So I never did. Three letters I wrote many years ago led to a change in a cruel slaughter practice in Australian abattoirs, so yes, I will keep writing letters for our kangaroos.

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Frankie Seymour says: May 29, 2022 at 8:27 am

Some time points for you.

2008: No protestor attacked the police in 2008 or any other year. Don’t you think someone might have been arrested if they had??? No-one was. The only people arrested during the protests that year were the group of First Nation Australians, and that was for trespassing on their own land.

No kangaroo protest action has ever resulted in harm to kangaroos or any other animals, that year or any other year.

2012: Protestors have never threatened ANU scientists, rangers, police or any other animal, not in 2012 nor any other year. If idiots choose to feel intimidated by a few unarmed protesters, mainly older women, it’s entirely their own affair.

As I’ve already mentioned the assertion that kangaroo protestors cut the bettong fences was not only a lie but a mindbogglingly implausible lie. Most likely the rangers let the fence fall down.

2013: YEP, in both 2013 and 2014, the massacre was delayed due to legal challenges. Pity the Tribunal was incompetent, or it would have been cancelled altogether.

2014: Since 2012, numerous protesters have intentionally put themselves, heard but unseen, in the path of the killers’ rifles, hoping that this would force the killers to stop shooting. II’s called being a “human shield”. For a while it worked, but in recent years, the shooters just keep shooting anyway. Thankfully no humans have been killed. Yet.

2015: See response re 2012.

2016: No protestor has ever been arrested for” intimidation”. The old chap arrested in 2015, whose case went to court in 2016, was arrested for blowing a whistle to warn the shooters they were shooting too close to where he was quite lawfully standing outside Wanniassa Hills Reserve. The case was thrown out by the Supreme Court when it turned out the government’s shooting that year was technically illegal anyway.

The suggestion that protest activity could possibly cause more stress to kangaroos than what is already being done to them is cynical and hypocritical in the extreme. These sentient beings are being hunted and shot (often not fatally). They are terrified and fleeing in panic into barbed wire, exclusion fencing and traffic. Babies are being bludgeoned, decapitated or orphaned to suffer an even more horrible death after watching their mums slaughtered.

Point of advice: you can’t believe everything you read in the press.

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Palmerston's Final Lament says: May 29, 2022 at 3:30 pm

My final point will be direct and unambiguous.

You continue to fail in this protest movement because you continue to use an aggressive and bullying technique that alienates the majority of the population. While it worked in Paris in 1968, angry Boomers trying to relive their youth using the same technique in 2022, and not considering your audience or its needs, will result in failure again and again. Stop and ask yourself, is this this image really your legacy?

My advice to you is simple. If you wish to succeed in any way at all stop the use of violent language, abuse and confection. It does not work and it will not work in this Territory. Branding is important, and your efforts in the early days have tarnished your brand beyond measure – you need to reflect on that and those who have done that damage to your cause.

The kangaroo is a single member of a very complex eco-system. Do not ignore the inter-connection and benefit of the wider ecology. Tailor your messaging to one of survive and thrive, bring the audience along with with, do not threaten and belittle, rather build alliances and influence and you might stand some chance of success.

Continue with the approach and treatment directed at me as detailed above and you will fail every year.

As a protest movement, it is your choice. If your leadership group cannot grow and change, change your leadership group.

But whatever you do, please do not continue in the way you current are. It will only lead to further failure.

Above all, reflect on your legacy. Is it going to be a legacy of change or a legacy that results in laughter?

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Alex says: May 29, 2022 at 10:50 pm

Hearing the old story on kangaroos exploding in numbers is simply a tale. Kangaroos live together in groups, its referred to as a mob”.

We ARE killing them off and fast. As mentioned in one of the comments by kangarevolution;

“The numbers recorded in early white man diaries showed that there were so many kangaroos they could almost reach out and touch them. We have decimated their numbers, not helped them grow”

The cull MUST STOP.

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Chris Klootwijk says: May 30, 2022 at 12:07 pm

Thanks Lament for stopping the crap. You read like a professional spoiler. Who is pulling your strings, the government media room or the Koch brothers?

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Rebecca Marks says: May 30, 2022 at 12:53 pm

Palmerston’s Lament,

You are incorrect in assuming that the people who are posting comments here are animal activists.

We are not. We are concerned citizens from diverse backgrounds including public servants, farmers etc.

We oppose the cull purely on the basis that IT IS UNNECESSARY.

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Bjorn says: May 30, 2022 at 3:05 pm

What is the opinion here on the culling of Brumbies in the Kosciuszko Park?
They are identified in reports as being detrimental to the ecosystem (like Kanga’s)
But I understand there is also debate about numbers (inflated etc…).
What about the culling of camels in the outback?
Is it that Kangaroos are native and opinion is they should be protected – but other such animals are considered pests by way of introduction?

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Palmerston's Lament says: May 30, 2022 at 4:31 pm

Thanks everyone, your arbitrary use of capital letters has really convinced me of your cause.

Let me remind you of the basics, this is free publicity on an open site, and all you have done is vilified me. What does this say about you and the quality of your campaign?

Repeat failure is failure. The Boomer legacy of complaining and writing stern letters, or cutting fences, or getting arrested, or abusing those you might have a differing view is failure. Your leaders are failures and you fail to put forward a coherent argument. Is this simple enough for you to understand?

Reflect please on your campaign ahead of next year. Remember the Canberra eco-system is more than one animal.

Make a difference, not more failure.

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Rebecca Marks says: May 31, 2022 at 3:27 pm

Hi Bjorn

I can’t speak for others however I am not against the culling of camels, horses and other introduced species if that is required due to environmental damage etc.

I don’t believe there is a case to cull kangaroos in Canberra which is why I oppose the cull.

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Jennifer Macdougall says: June 17, 2022 at 8:24 pm

If the Government is so sure of its counts of kangaroos on Reserves, why does it not table those numbers before the cull for each reserve it intends to cull, tell us how many it intends to cull on each of those reserves, and how many kangaroos are expected to be left after the cull? So many times this has been asked to be greeted with deafening silence on the part of the Government. Surely that reflects a desire not to be accountable to the public on this issue. And again, when is it going to include in its target the extra 30% that are killed, being the joeys pulled form the pouches of shot females and bludgeoned to death .Very distressing today to see blood stained rocks showing more joeys had been killed this way. Pull a puppy away from its mother and kill it that way and tell me, would I be guilty of an act of cruelty. Under the Animal Welfare act I would be, so why are joeys not given the same protection. Not good enough Minister and Chief Minister. Time you properly informed the public on this issue.

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Palmerston's Lament says: June 24, 2022 at 10:05 am

This comment makes little real sense. The Govt puts out a figure that indicates the number of animals it intends culling in total. If you read their management plan it will show you their thinking, furthermore, if you want to really understand the maths and science, UQ runs a Cert 4/Degree in animal management.

Now joeys in the pouch in June are rare indeed. I think you are again using emotional conflation here to push your own perception bias. Basic biology would suggest that a kangaroo contains a lot of blood that would be left behind after being shot. So your statement is deliberately misleading; a joey has hair and in June would not require pouching, any pouch young would not produce blood stains, how do you know the blood is as a result of females being processed, what evidence do you have that the rocks were used for the purpose you describe and so on.

I put it to you, again, that your imagination is playing a much bigger role in your emotional response to this than any reality. Or in simpler terms, pictures or it never happened.

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Palmerston's Lament says: June 24, 2022 at 9:49 am

With just over a month to go with the cull, I thought it would be worthwhile to revisit progress on the protest narrative and the impact of single species dominance on an ecosystem.

Coincidently, The Guardian has just published an article about rewilding, and the impact/consequences of bringing the wild wolf back into ecosystems in the Northern Hemisphere. It makes for an interesting and informative read (see link here: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/23/rebalancing-act-bringing-back-wolf-fix-broken-ecosystem-aoe)

The key line for me comes towards the end of the article. ““We need to look at the rhetoric we use, and the narratives. I think honesty is really important, and being brave enough to embrace the subjectivity of our values is really central here.”” The scientific narrative is changing and evolving, as you would expect, as more data becomes available. The presence of large animals in the ecosystem “enrich the human experience” where the smaller contributors are overlooked.

A quick survey of ACT’s 2022 protest campaign to date suggests the absence of strategy and the over-reliance on a single media channel has again showed the movement to be a shallow, self-licking ice cream with no real strategies and definitely no impact on the main stream narrative. Again, I would stream to you that your campaign remains a failure. While ever you rely on Empaths for leadership and resort to name calling and abuse of the counter-narrative you will continue to fail.

I look forward to something happening in July. But I will not be holding my breath given the lack of action to date.

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Jennifer Macdougall says: June 24, 2022 at 1:03 pm

Palmerston’s Lament .Where do you get your information from? You might like to look at the FOI figures before you make comment about cull numbers, pouch joeys etc. Firstly, yes, the Government does set an overall target, but it also does set a kill number for each reserve it intends to cull before the cull, against what numbers it claims are on that reserve, and from that it determines how many it intends to leave on a particular. So Farrer Ridge, had a pre cull count, (patently proved wrong), and set a kill number for that reserve, intending on its figures to leave c.101 kangaroos. However less than 35 are now there and you are lucky to see even one if you walk on the Ridge as it is 185Ha so the density now of kangaroos is minimal .So much for the KMP intention to maintain at least 1 kangaroo per HA to control undesirable grass species. The situation on Farrer Ridge was a good example of flawed counting methods used to determine kangaroo number. it is not the only reserve where this has happened.

Now the pouch joeys. Here Palmerston might again like to check the facts. FOI figures from the Govt are our source each year. So in 2021 it set an overall cull target of 1500 kangaroos, to be culled off several reserves. it does set a number to be killed on each. The actual kill was 1124, there being 619 pouch joeys killed. Now around half the 1500 kangaroos killed were female ie, 650 so clearly if 619 pouch joeys were killed, then nearly all the females were carrying pouch joeys. So Palmerston Lament ,you might like to re-consider your statement that in June there are very few in pouch joeys. Indeed, as the Govt does not cite the age of the females killed, some of those 650 females would include at foot female joeys, so this suggests very strongly that,nearly all, if not all the adult females killed were in fact carrying pouch joeys. The numbers simply speak for themselves. if you want the exact number of females kiiled I will dig it out again, but it was around 650-680 so let us not comfort ourselves by saying very few females would be carrying pouch joeys, because that is simply not correct.

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Palmerston's Lament says: June 24, 2022 at 3:08 pm

Except, and this is the key biology point, any furred joeys are stand alone and do not require pouch support at this time of the year. Un-furred young do not produce the residue that you describe with such emotional intensity.

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Jennifer Macdougall says: June 24, 2022 at 7:46 pm

Palmerston Lament “Now joeys in the pouch in June are rare indeed”. So what would you call the 619 ‘in pouch joeys’ the Government admits to killing in 2021 cull? The females killed, including young female joeys that would not be bearing pouch joeys, was total 934. So even if the whole 934 were females of joey carrying age, then it is clear 2/3rd were carrying pouch joeys . I note you do not dispute now that the Govt could release the numbers it intended to kill on each reserve, say how many it estimates are there and hence how many it expects to leave . I wonder why they do not want to release those figures before they send the shooters in? Go figure .But it seems you do not really want to know the true facts. So I won’t bother .You can get the figures from FOI yourself in future. Leave us to deal with the reality that is going on out there night after night. Armchair critics are not worth bothering with if they cannot get their facts right. Cheers>

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Palmerston's Lament says: June 25, 2022 at 10:44 am

I was going to refrain from any more comment until after the cull concludes but nothing you have said makes any real sense. You remain caught in a spiral of self indulgent emotion that is destroying your protest movement.

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Jennifer Macdougall says: June 25, 2022 at 3:41 pm

Really, facts are facts, not self indulgent emotion but if you want to wait till the numbers are announced in terms of the “in pouch” joeys killed in the current cull, then so be it. And when you get those figures will they be self indulgent emotion on the part of the person signing off on your FOI request? You seem to have extraordinary difficulty in accepting basic facts. Instead of complaining why don’t you come up onto Farrer Ridge and count the kangaroos with me and then we might be able to agree on something. But as we already know how many are there, we are both probably better off otherwise occupied. And on that note, over and out. Other more important things to do, for the kangaroos.

Palmerton's Lament says: June 25, 2022 at 6:15 pm

Quick comment. A survey of roos in Palmerston showed no pouched furred young. I saw one out at Googong in a similar sized mob but they were self sufficient.

In a placental mammal we would be talking about in utero foetuses. But since you do not care about the deer culling, it does not matter.

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Jennifer Macdougall says: June 28, 2022 at 4:54 pm

Palmerston Lament, so that is your basis for trying to explain away the fact that 619 pouch joeys were clubbed to death in the 2021 cull. They are in not utero foetuses for heaven’s sake, though no doubt many shot females were carrying such while at the same time having joeys suckling in the pouch, ie in pouch joey, 619 being killed in 2021 nd more each night this month. .I assume you do know the difference between a pouch and a uterus, though your comment would suggest not. Some of those pouch joeys are quite small while others are quite large. Have you not seen the feet of a large joey sticking out of the pouch of a female, if not then clearly you do not know get around the reserves very much. The self sufficient at foot joeys that are killed are listed in the total number of male and females killed, but the Govt does not bother to state which are mature adults killed as opposed to your independent joeys .They simply class the whole lot, male and female as independents. They do not bother to include in their cull target the pouch joeys they kill. But as you say deer are culled too, as are donkeys, goats, camels, brumbies, buffalo, wild pigs as well as the introduced foxes, and also wild dogs, and feral cats. We are talking here about native wildlife, not feral animals Do not care? Who says I do not care? I care about the killing of all animals, and the culling of those so called feral animals has a very bad history when it comes to humaneness. Just take a trip out west for yourself and you will see what I mean. And in case you did not know, wombats are slaughtered en mass by farmers living on properties in the southern highlands, I know because, to my disgust one of my cousins does just that, every good wombat is a good wombat because they make hole in fences .Well he could do what we do on our farm for the kangaroos, we may kangaroo openings in fences, large enough for them to pass through, but not sheep or cattle. Mind you, now with enclosure fencing in QLD and more recently in NSW thousands of kangaroos are trapped, they breed up inside the enclosures and they are herded into corners and shot en masse. If you do not believe me, then how about you read the recent report on kangaroos welfare etc carried out by the NSW Govt. I suggest you educate yourself a lot better on these issues before you play spoiler here. Get your facts right and then people might listen to you, but until then, as you say it does not matter. I just happened to have a spare moment or two, but that moment or two has now no doubt been wasted on a pointless exercise. So be it. Each to their own as they say.

Chris Klootwijk says: June 24, 2022 at 1:10 pm

So Lament is doing a Lazarus,.. on government instructions, …or just being an incurable spoiler?

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Palmerston's Lament says: June 24, 2022 at 3:05 pm

Welcome back Chris. I must admit the best part of your commentary is the full stop at the end. Mr Dunning and Mr Kruger will be in contact with you in the fullness of time I am sure.

I think it is fair to say, you have had your go, you got some column inches in the paper and a police record and contributed to the demise of more kangaroos than planned.

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Chris Klootwijk says: June 24, 2022 at 4:19 pm

Lazarus, even as a professional spoiler it is not good form to forgo a mention that the ACT government’s 2015 kangaroo cull was found unlawful in court.

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Palmerston's Lament says: June 24, 2022 at 8:25 pm

The facts have spoken for you with your actions at the time putting other protestors and cullers in danger, and causing unnecessary stress and likely death to the animals you were pretending to protect. The damage you did to the image of the protest movement lingers long and yet your inability to accept your role in all this, pretend everything is a government conspiracy, and resort to childish name calling, only serves to highlight the points I made above.

If your protest is to have any impact at all it has to be positive. You are not a positive message nor do your actions, historical and current, do anything to assist the cause.

If you want to help the kangaroo movement, be silent, offer financial support, and do not engage in childish name calling in the media. You are a public embodiment of the failure and you need to accept this and stop redirecting and blame shifting.

Good luck for the next month of culling. With people like you in charge it is bound to be another series of self indulgent failure.

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Palmerston's now long suffering Lament says: June 29, 2022 at 11:52 am

Hi Jennifer,

Thank you again for your response and attempts to block further exchanges. I have two points to make, and I suggest you dwell on them.

Firstly, since you seem either unable or unwilling to understand simple sentences regarding biology, I will deal with the issues you raise in as basic a way as possible. At this time of the year, if the animal is furred, it is capable of independent living. To the point that the mothers will eject these passengers in flight mode so please consider your disruption techniques and their consequential impact on the younger population.

I note you finally acknowledge the culling of other animals, but again with value conditions. It is as you have put an extreme value on a single species to the exclusion of all other members of the ecosystem. I continue to find myself repeating that, because you do not seem willing to acknowledge the complex inter-relationship at play in our open spaces and the destructive impact of too many of one species, irrespective of their “cute” factor.

Secondly, if you are seeking to change people’s views on issues, you continue to fail dismally. Looking at each point made in your recent comment, you seek to insult, demean and bully any dissent. This is never acceptable, and in 2022 people will not put up with it. Again, and I cannot stress this strongly enough, if you wish to be successful at all in your campaign, change your attitude and engagement with dissent. Calling me a spoiler means you understand you are failing, it is the language of the schoolyard bully.

Please take time to reflect on what you are trying to do. This year has been yet another year of embarrassing failure for you. Perhaps we should regroup for lessons learned and the development of a 12 month strategy on a page, one that brings the Canberra population along with you, after culling season finishes.

Or you can just keep on calling me, and anyone else who disagrees with your approach, childish names and continue the same cycle of failure into the future.

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Jennifer Macdougall says: June 29, 2022 at 2:09 pm

Palmerston Lament. The reason I see to reply to you as you seem incapable of accepting the facts . I suggest rather than I waste my time further, you go seek the facts for yourself. And by the way I have a biology prize sitting here beside me and more books and science on this issue than you can ever know so do not try to tell me I do not know what I am talking about . And also by the way, are you aware that most of the Members in the Assembly admit to never having read the science regarding the kangaroos, yet they sit their and say how many should be kiiled each year based on the science! Says it all does it not. Now you have done nothing here except make what I see as ridiculous remarks, trying to demean the efforts of good people trying to make a difference, and we will make a difference because we are prepared to get off our backsides and do something. If I have learned anything in the 40 plus years I have been involved in animal welfare, yes even to the extent of being on the advisory committee that drafted the current legislation, is that silence is consent. When you go into a supermarket and you see free range eggs, where once there were none, it is because we got off our backsides and fought for years to get hens out of cages, and while we did not succeed in getting them all out, we certainly did succeed in making a difference in the lives of millions of hens. Now I do not know if you ever went into a battery hen establishment . It takes some courage believe me when you see the state of the hens in there . Oh yes it is easy for most people to shrug their shoulders, walk away and say what can I do. Well we are the ones who will never do that, and have never done that. Silence is consent and most people are silent as they either simply do not care, or they feel powerless to do anything. We will succeed because we are dedicated to the welfare of animals. So spoil all you like, we will not give up and we will make a difference. That I can assure you. Over and out. I have better things to do, and I am sure you have also. Two railway lines never can meet, so I do end this, and no offence meant.

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Ian Meikle says: June 29, 2022 at 2:25 pm

Okay, commentators, I think we’ll draw this debate to a close. Thank you for your participation.
Ian Meikle, editor.

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